Suggestion Post

Posted by (twitter: @mikekasprzak)
August 30th, 2009 6:58 pm

Hi everybody!

I’m getting a lot of comments in IRC about things, so I figure I’d start a post to collect them all.

So if you have any thoughts about how thing ran this weekend, or the voting, post a reply here.  This way, they’re all in one place, and we can see them when we get a chance.


250 Responses to “Suggestion Post”

  1. PoV says:

    From IRC.

    PoV: Would be great with small icons beneath the images so I can easily see what entries works on OSX and/or the Web. :)

  2. Lord Tim says:

    A download page that has all of the download links, so that we can download everything easily.

  3. LoneStranger says:

    Suggest that you add a “View My Entry” on the page right after entry submission/save.

  4. Endurion says:

    Most important niggle, since it appear massively irritating for me:

    If I’m logged in, please remove the “Sign In/Create Account” link (if you can). It makes me think the Login did not work.

    • PoV says:

      Good point. Right now it’s actually text I wrote inside a page we stick in a box, as opposed to something generated by wordpress. People were missing the Admin links on the lower right side.

  5. GirlFlash says:

    I’d like the flash embed to be available to everyone, if not then perhaps a [youtube] tag I could drop in my post, I cant imagine you having to set up everyones timelapse is fun either 😉

  6. HybridMind says:

    It would be fun to have the useful LD author listings available (with # of blog entries next to names) so you can quickly locate an LD author to check out all the submissions they’ve made over the past. I know this list used to be in the right side bar of the blog but has been removed now. I realize the list must be huge now but I don’t really care where it ends up as long as there is a nice place to view the aggregated data on a list of LD authors. Make sense? :)

  7. fydo says:

    From IRC:

    It would be nice to have a userlist page that features a list of users in a “cloud tag” effect. The font sizes of the usernames are directly related to the number of posts for that user.

    It would encourage people to post more! 😀

  8. I think u could make a platforms/tools counter. And some filters based on game platforms/tools are welcome, ’cause I really wanna know what are the games maden in flash and unity3d….

  9. nilsf says:

    A forum / message board would be nice.
    Perhaps associate Trophies with games rather than authors.

  10. Doches says:

    Chiming in for getting some sort of userlist back — maybe even some nifty social engineering thing, like fydo’s tag cloud…

  11. Morre says:

    For next year, I think it’d be great if the “first 20 games to vote on” list was automatically put together so all games get linked to an equal number of times.

  12. ChevyRay says:

    My only suggestion (and I really think it’s necessary) is to have a “Technical” category for voting. Because many of the games weren’t very fun or innovative, and didn’t really apply the theme in a creative manner, but were technically OUTSTANDING for a 48-hour period! That has to be worth something, especially considering that everybody voting is also a developer, and thus should appreciate difficuld code work when s/he sees it.

  13. PoV says:

    < PoV > Might be a bit much to deal with, but there’s a problem we’ve neglected.
    < PoV > Many people that can’t run a game say so in comments. The problem is there’s no way respond back to them (i.e. what did you do to make it crash?), and no way to say something might be fixed.
    < PoV > comments being voting comments.

    • ChevyRay says:

      I was wondering about this. I made an effort to double-check the person’s journal, etc. in case they’d posted a fix or mirrored it.

    • PoV says:

      < hamumu > oh, it doesn’t anymore – it used to be that your blog was shown under the comments for your voting
      < hamumu > I used to use that to judge the Community (when it was called Journal, Food, and Timelapse)
      < hamumu > if it did that, your most recent blog entry would be right there as a reply to anything

  14. sgstair says:

    Something that would be really neat: Give the public the ability to vote – but in a seperate way. Like +/- icons by all the entries, and track votes for that as well; It would be nice to have a “public rating” as well as the official voting record, just for informational reasons :) And also should be interesting to see when those ratings disagree.

  15. Entar says:

    Half-star ratings would be nice. Sometimes I find myself debating between giving something a 3 or 4, when 3.5 would do nicely.

  16. It’d be nice to reply in the comments section for your own entry.

    For example, I’d like to explain to the many people commenting on my installer that it is a necessary evil since XNA has so many dependencies. Trust me, it’d be more of a pain to manually run all those redist setups if you need em, and you can always cancel each one if you dont. :)

  17. Almost says:

    Hmm, looking at somebody’s profile page whatchamacallit shows posts by them, and trophies they’ve earned.. it’s be nice to also show games by them in a manner very similar to that of the trophies.

  18. erik says:

    I find I’m always refreshing my entry page to see if anyone has left any new feedback on my game. It would be cool if I could just subscribe to an rss feed instead.

    Not sure how you could handle cleaning up all the dead rss feeds after the judging is over.

  19. Almost says:

    Perhaps an option to filter out some platforms when voting (so, checkboxes for supported platforms when uploading finished game)? that way windows users won’t find Linux only games etc, and mac/linux users will be able to quickly find which games they can play.

  20. noonat says:

    Second the [youtube] request.

    It would be nice if the voting list and the operating system list were merged. That is to say, I would love to be able to see what windows games I have not yet voted for, or what flash games I have not yet voted for.

    I would die for a notification email or an RSS feed for the ratings pages. It’s frustrating to have to constantly hit the page to check whether I have any new comments.

  21. Morre says:

    I think it’d be nice if the starting length for the “random games” list matched the number of placed votes needed for a bronze medal.

    Either of these two ways would work:
    A) Change the list length to something like min(max(20,25% of games),#ofGamesInContest).
    B) Change the number of votes needed for a bronze medal to the list start length.

    • HybridMind says:

      Yeah– I was thinking this same thing because unconsciously I was assuming I’d “earn my bronze” when I’d finished my 20… but then the 20 started sneakily expanding without me noticing too! Heh. Anyway.. good idea. There are so many great games this competition that I continue plowing forward even now with barely an hour and half remaining in the voting… I wanna earn my silver at least! 4% left! 😉

  22. Almost says:

    I can’t comment on mini LD entries because I didn’t enter.. this is annoying. I suspect teh same wil lremain true for LD 15 to anybody who didn’t enter that as well.. similarly annoying.

    I say let any user leave a comment on a game after voting is done, (or just in general, I like comments, why are we stopping them?)

    • PoV says:

      Agreed. Basic commenting is a priority for Phil, when he has the time. Ideally, we may want the ability to actually discuss with comments. Not sure of an easy way to integrate that in to wordpress at the moment though. Post style commenting (like what I’m doing right now) would be ideal.

  23. Endurion says:

    For the automated vote list, maybe an indicator if someone modified their entry (added build, modified text or some such) so you can easily spot an entry that can now be voted on.

    Makes it a lot easier to find late builds. Right now you have to click through all entries and find the ones you promised to try later.

  24. Endurion says:

    Oh, and stop using the ugly CSS hacks :) (WordPress at fault I presume)

    The page looks borked on IE8. IMHO anybody who had to include IE hacks for their CSS page used too much of that crap.

  25. ippa says:

    A toplist containing All entries would be cool, answering my question “How well did I do compared to _all_ others?”

  26. nitrofurano says:

    it’s great seeing LudumDare at , but would be great being at as well – sometimes fails, situation rarelly happen on

  27. Deepflame says:

    Can we have a voting round after the 14th mini LD? Due to the co-op nature I’m real curious to see how it pans out, and I’d love a voting round. :)

  28. Tenoch says:

    Entering non ASCII characters in the entry submit form fails. UTF8 seems to be interpreted as iso-8858-1, or something like that, which makes people from non english speaking countries look ugly. And there are a lot of us too :)

  29. gimblll says:

    About the theme voting system. I thought that exploration the most “general” theme of all, like the lowest common denominator. I would hope we would get more focused or specific themes in the future, don’t know how to get that though. Maybe we could change the voting system so that for example those that have submitted more (or as many as they have entries) games in previous LDs could get more +:s and -:s to assing. Or something to make the theme selection a bit more “interesting”.

  30. pekuja says:

    Blog search results should include authors of the posts.
    Also, it should be possible to search for authors or get a list of authors. I often want to find all posts or games by a specific person, but there’s no direct way to do that.

  31. blackbird04217 says:

    How about requiring links to have a download size for each version?

    I request this because I am (unluckily) on satellite internet with a daily limit of 200mb a day. Normal browsing can take 30-60mb a day (entire family), and that doesn’t include youtube, googlemaps or other things… So you see the problem I have with just randomly clicking.

    Granted, most projects I’ve seen are less than 10mb. This is just a suggestion for people how are watching their mb’s transfer away each day.

  32. PoV says:

    Use/find a WordPress patch that REQUIRES all posts to have a subject.

  33. PoV says:

    Add some way for people to flag their entry as “don’t bother playing me, play some better games instead”. This will require some discussion on policy, weather such games should simply be not submitted, or to allow them for future statistics gathering (participated but didn’t finish, playable but unfinished games, playable games, etc.)

  34. PoV says:

    I chatted with someone who was unfairly treated for including/using an installer with his XNA game. Hamumu says he had the same problem before for using an installer. My thought is to suggest in the submission guidelines to anyone providing an installer (MSI, EXE, RPM, DEB) that they also provide a raw archive version too… for the picky.

  35. PoV says:

    I’m slowly getting more braindead today, but the general impression is the whole middleware, engines, and libraries and custom basecode situation is unclear.

  36. Jonny D says:

    There’s always someone who votes straight 1 on every category. The problem is that he doesn’t vote for every entry :)

    I was just dreaming of what it would be like for that person if his name showed up next to his ratings just because they were all ones… Despite how fun that would be, I think such votes should not be counted. I would have gotten 10 places higher in Graphics had it not been for that guy.

    p.s. Public flogging scheduled for Thursday at high noon if you tell me his name 😉

    • Codexus says:

      The voting system is probably not ideal. For example, the winning entry had relatively few votes this time.

      What would happen if we just added the votes instead of taking an average? What if we had a final voting round with the best entries?

      • bluescrn says:

        A final voting round, maybe on the top 10, sounds like a nice idea

        Maybe randomly assign everyone 10-20 ‘please vote on these ones!’ games in the initial voting, too – to try to get a more even spread of votes – as voting on anywhere near all 200 or so (in 2 weeks) is quite an unrealistic thing for most people.

        (Although it may be fairly irrelevant, depending on how the Jam/Compo split works out next time?)

    • Wiering says:

      I think the system should ignore the highest x and lowest x votes when calculating the average, isn’t that what they do when judging sports? (x=1 or 2, or perhaps a percentage)

  37. bluescrn says:

    I think that the ‘humor’ category should be removed from the voting process – as it’s not relevant to a lot of games – and gets people lots of low scores somewhat unfairly. It should be part of ‘fun’, shouldn’t it?

    Then rename ‘innovation’ to ‘originality’, and add a ‘technical achievement’ category?

    • SonnyBone says:

      I SERIOUSLY disagree. Comedy in games is hard to come by, and it’s something that I look forward to the most during Ludum Dare. Humor does not always equal fun, and fun does not always equal humor. Some of my favorite games are humorous, and they should be able to stand in their own category.

    • Almost says:

      Rather than removing it entirely, perhaps allow developers to ignore votes in a category if they do not want to compete in that category. (In particular: Audio, and Humor)
      This isn’t really necessary, it’s just that people are inconsistent in how they rate these categories. For example, if the majority of people rate a category as NA and then one person arbitrarily rate that category a 5, it is given a much higher value than it deserves.

  38. Codexus says:

    It would be nice to still be able to add comments to the games even though the voting is officially over. I’m still trying some of the games but now I can’t even leave a comment :/

  39. PoV says:

    I don’t remember if we do this or not, but it may be worth throwing away the highest and lowest ratings for a better average. A seemingly random string of 1’s (as seen below) is kinda sucky.

  40. PoV says:

    Add a page where we can see what everyone’s scoring average is. If someone is handing out all 1’s (or mostly 1’s), we can see.

    Also, if that does become a problem, add a way to disregard individuals from voting results.

  41. Wiering says:

    The search results would be more useful if they would show the author (“Posted by … in …”).

  42. SonnyBone says:

    I know most people can’t vote on ALL the games, but out of 204 entries, only 19 people played and rated my game. That’s pathetic, really.

    Some games shot out of the gate with 30 or 40 plays within a few hours, and I don’t understand why.

    Sadly, I don’t think there’s a real solution to this. Forcing people to play and rate games will only push them to HALF ASS it or just rate all 3s and be done with it. I was gonna suggest that everyone be assigned to a certain percentage of the games and that if they didn’t play and rate them, then their final scores would be void and they’d be moved to the JAM or whatever. But that won’t work because people will just HALF ASS it like I said.

    I agree that we need some type of public judging system. I also think we could use a pro judging panel of 3 – 5 folks that must play and rate EVERY game. Then we could have a PUBLIC result, PANEL result, and DEVELOPER result. But that’s a shit ton of work and crap to keep track of. It could all be remedied and avoided if people would just PLAY MORE GAMES, DAMMIT.

    I think it’s really selfish to take part in the developing part and not the FEEDBACK part. Some of us REALLY care what you think of our games and we want you to play them.

    Also… who in the hell rated me a 1 on audio? WHAT A HATER.

    • Codexus says:

      I didn’t play a lot of the games. Honestly, it quickly gets boring. In general, I just don’t really play that many games either (I bought a Xbox 360 in September last year and the only game I bought for it is still wrapped in plastic).

      Anyway, I’d rather have fewer votes of people who took their time than lots of votes from people who tried the game for 20 seconds (even though I understand that my games are probably not even fun 20 seconds). I’d be annoyed if nobody played my game, but as long as I get a comments from a few people it’s OK. I can’t really expect everyone will want to play my game.

      Also try to select a picture that will make people want to play your game as the main screenshot for your entry. Using the title screen of your game was probably a mistake. It’s all about the marketing 😉

    • Codexus says:

      Everybody loves statistics!!!!

      Using the data from the page that lists the number of votes and coolness of everybody:

      The average number of votes was 26.11 for votes received and 26.10 for votes given (should be the same for both but for some reason the numbers don’t match exactly)

      The median number of votes given was 15
      But the median number of votes received was 24

      Also while 35 people did not vote at all, the minimum number of votes received was 9.

      • Jonny D says:

        Yet another example of why I love median and hate average. It tells you so much more!

        • snowyowl says:

          What? They both tell you about as much as each other, especially when used together.
          The mean number of votes given is higher than the median, indicating that a few players rated a lot, and a lot of players rated hardly any.
          For votes received, the two averages are about equal, suggesting that games were played more-or-less at random – which is as it should be.

          I wonder what the cumulative distribution curves for the number of votes given/received would look like?

          • Jonny D says:

            Sorry, I’m a median lobbyist. To make a point you sometimes have to make the other side look bad. I’ve had too many professors look at an exam average and say “Oh, no problems here: 70 isn’t bad”, but the median was 40 (seriously, this was actually true for several grad courses). The median tells you more about the people, rather than the numbers. The people can get lost in an average. In the LD voting example, people were slacking off in general, while a few people went crazy and shifted the average up. The average alone loses this. The median alone doesn’t. It’s a shame that the average is usually the only expected statistic…

            Median fanboy

  43. pekuja says:

    I want to be able to view what I voted on after the compo is over.

  44. PoV says:

    From IRC:

    [PubbyBot] have 3 more awards
    [PubbyBot] one for best web based game (unity, flash)
    [PubbyBot] one for best gamemaker game (gamemaker, rpgmaker)
    [PubbyBot] and one for best “real” programming game

  45. devinmoore says:

    zip up the top 20 for download. It would be way easier than trying to get them all individually, then you can demo what are probably 20 pretty good games :)

  46. PoV says:

    [Blackduck] You should make source code be marked as a required field

    We’d have to do this optionally (Compo yes, Jam no).

  47. Suggestion #1: Weight classes. Perhaps something like this:

    – featherweight: ASM, C++, C#
    – welterweight: python, flash, html5
    – heavyweight: GameMaker, Unity, Unreal

    Suggestion #2: “Somebody commented on your post” Facebook-style notifications so we don’t reload old pages over and over too see if there is any chatter. For example, if I reply to a post I’d like to automatically see if someone replied to my reply.

    Suggestion #3: You can edit a post, you can edit a reply on a post you own, but you can’t edit a reply on someone else’s thread, so you can’t fix typos.

    P.S. Thanks for everything you do! As usual LD48 was absolutely wonderful.

  48. stqn says:

    Is there a rating guide somewhere? For example should I rate “n/a” or “1 star” an entry without sound, etc. Also it seems weird that there is no programming/technical category for rating. If a game is bugged or too slow, it doesn’t count… are we supposed to reflect this in “overall”?

    Also I didn’t know where to post my questions :) … here is maybe not the best place, but I figured it wasn’t worse than posting a new post for that.

  49. PoV says:

    [medice] not sure if you were in charge of the pages, but i would like to report that the still looks quite crap on opera. Some overline-tag unclosed or something, and everything gets overlined

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